Show Notes
This week talk about time anxiety, specifically in the ways we’ve been seeing it show up in our own lives. There are many ways that time anxiety can show up and we discuss the stress of feeling like there’s never enough time to do what we want to do, delaying joy in order to do the “shoulds” first, and all-too-common “I just have to get through this week, then things will slow down.”
Mentioned on the show:
- Bookshop Affiliate Storefront
- Litquake
- Stories are Weapons: Psychological Warfare and the American Mind by Annalee Newitz
- EEDA Pod episode “There’s No Such Thing as 5-Star Cereal”
- EEDA Pod episode “Burnout is Not Your Fault”
- Drop the Ball: Achieving More by Doing Less by Tiffany Dufu
- 5 Calls
Find the full show notes and official transcript on our website: eedapod.com
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Sound editing by Jen Zink
Transcript
Music: [Intro Music]
Patricia: Hey Kittens, welcome to Enthusiastic Encouragement and Dubious Advice, the podcast for folks who would rather curl into the fetal position than lean in. I’m your host, Patricia Elzie-Tuttle.
Nicole: And I’m your podcast passenger princess, Nicole Elzie-Tuttle. We are recording this show on August 27th, 2024.
Patricia: And we are having second summer here in the Bay Area.
Nicole: Oh my goodness. I mean, summer for us. It’s like
Patricia: 85
Nicole: 85 at the most and we are sweltering
Patricia: absolutely
Nicole: without air conditioning.
Patricia: Yeah, that’s true. Without air conditioning.
Nicole: Yeah
Patricia: We recently learned or kind of embodied the lesson of going to thrift shops in areas where wealthy people live.
Nicole: Y’all, the stuff that rich people get rid of to, like, thrift stores is wild.
Patricia: Yeah, we were in a Goodwill, and there were actual silver pieces in the kitchen area. And, like, they were tarnished, they needed to be cleaned up, but it was actual silver.
Nicole: Yeah, for, like, really cheap.
Patricia: Yeah, just, like, $140 Lululemon leggings for, like, five bucks, just absolutely bananas.
Nicole: The lesson being, if you have some place in your area that is known for having ridiculously wealthy people, go check out their thrift shops, cause they’ll just get rid of stuff.
Patricia: Yeah, and it was about an hour away from where we are here, because, you know, yes, there are wealthy people in San Francisco, and Oakland, and Berkeley, and I think everyone here kind of knows, and like, we already go to the thrift shops here, and they, like, bump up the prices on everything, so.
Nicole: Or all of our cool vintage stores go through, and buy all the cool stuff out.
Patricia: That’s true.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: That’s true. So…
Also, we recently did a cool thing. One of my dear friends invited us to a fundraising dinner for Litquake. If you’re not familiar with Litquake, it is San Francisco’s literary festival. They just had their 25th year last year.
And that’s actually coming up, I think it’s like October 10th through the 24th or 26th or something. So if you’re in the Bay Area, Litquake usually has like over 80 different events, literary events going on around the city at different locations during that time span.
Nicole: What is a literary event?
Patricia: Oh my gosh.
Nicole: Is it just like authors talking?
Patricia: I mean, it’s often authors talking, but it could be so many things. Sometimes it’s kind of a game show situation, like at an event. Sometimes it’s reading terrible scenes of erotica from books, maybe like that’s the theme of the event. It could be all kinds of mostly literature centric things.
Nicole: Okay.
Patricia: We’re just gonna have to go to some events this year.
Nicole: Oh no.
Patricia: Oh no. People.
Nicole: I have to go do things with people.
Patricia: But anyway, we went to a fundraising dinner, and the featured author is Annalee Newitz, who just had a book come out called Stories Are Weapons: Psychological Warfare, and The American Mind. We both devoured this book. I really, really, I don’t know, like, enjoy is the right word for it.
Like, it was a hard read sometimes, but it was also, like, I learned so much, and I think it’s such an important book to read right now as far before the presidential election as you can.
Nicole: Yeah, there is. Whew. I think it’s a really good also history and primer on how psychological warfare particularly in the United States works.
Patricia: Yeah. Yeah. I, I loved it. We will definitely put a link to it in the show notes, but it was pretty cool. We got to meet Annalee and have dinner with a bunch of people we don’t know and hear them talk about their book and it was pretty cool. It got us out of the house.
Nicole: Yeah. And into it was, it was at someone’s home in their backyard that had a gorgeous view of the bay as well. So that was fun.
Patricia: And there was a deer.
Nicole: There was a deer that tried to sneak up on us during dinner.
Patricia: But yeah, it was, you know, we’re still not eating inside restaurants, but it was out on someone’s patio.
Also, as usual, we still have a Patreon at patreon.com/eedapod. We have a bookshop. It’s called The Infophile’s Bookshop because I set it up a long time ago, and it has a shelf that will have all the books that we’ve mentioned on this podcast, as well as other books that I have mentioned in my newsletter, or maybe the best books I read for the past three years now. I have shelves for those, so…
These are the things that we have set up so far that kind of help keep this podcast going. So that we can keep it going without ads.
Music: [Music]
Patricia: So one of the things about mainstream self help or self help that comes to mind when people say this term that has always irked me is this idea of people or a person having it all figured out and if you only just buy their book or pay for their seminar, then you too can win friends and influence people or whatever.
Maybe it’s just me being contrary, but I rarely trust anyone who claims to know what they’re doing all the time. I honestly think we’re all just winging it to a certain degree, us included.
Nicole: And you know, we were talking about this earlier, and I think the vibe I’m really getting from a lot of the mainstream self help is this major focus on this concept of optimization and efficiency and trying to extract the most value out of all of your time. And the more, like, you’ve talked to me about it all, it reeks of this, like, almost American capitalist thinking.
Patricia: It’s very, like, Industrial Revolution vibes, like, conveyor belt
Nicole: Yeah
Patricia: kind of assembly line.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: Yeah.
And with that in mind, today I wanted us to talk about something that I know I’m actively working on, and probably will always be working on.
I don’t have it all figured out, but I think it’s important that we talk about the things that we don’t necessarily have all figured out.
Most of my anxiety is centered around time. I’m sure it’s rooted in a sense of mortality, but that’s definitely something that I’m not interested in unpacking.
Nicole: For me, I also have a lot of anxiety around time, and particularly this concept of, like, having optimized time, like, as I manage time with having ADHD also, like, those two things do not play together.
I don’t know if we want to unpack some of that here, but…
Patricia: Well, I think, you know, as, as the memes say, what, or what was the thing you were talking about? Like, is it time blindness?
Nicole: There’s a little bit of time blindness at play. Like, I really struggle to kind of function with an understanding of how long something will take, which includes the amount of time between, like, now and when something is gonna happen.
Like, you could tell me it’s three hours. But, like, the functional time is the struggle with that.
Patricia: Right, and then you get in that waiting period, like, oh, I have an appointment at three o’clock today, so you literally can’t do anything in the rest of the day leading up to that.
Nicole: Yeah, well, because there’s the element of the time math that comes in of, like, okay, the appointment’s at three, it’s going to take 30 minutes to get there, and okay, let’s give me five minutes to get out and get the car started and everything.
Another say 30 minutes to get ready, but oh, I should eat before we go. Add another, like, 30 minutes on to that, so already we’re, what, at, like, an hour and 40? We might as well round it to two hours before. So that means I need to, like, start prepping for this at one o’clock, maybe? And if it’s, like
Patricia: And one o’clock’s basically lunch.
Nicole: Well, yeah. So, okay, cool, that’s lunch, so, okay, that puts me at twelve o’clock. Right. And it’s a math, like, I try to do, but ending up, like I said, getting kind of stuck in a waiting for that to happen because of the anxiety around messing this up.
Patricia: Right.
Nicole: And if I start down the hole of, like, doing something else, I might miss that start time.
Patricia: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Nicole: Which means I’m gonna be late.
Patricia: I am often stuck in a cycle of feeling like there’s never enough time to do the things I want to do versus the things I need to or quote unquote should be doing, you know, I want to read like the thousand books we have sitting here in the house and I want to learn Mandarin and I want to learn how to crochet and maybe if I can crochet then I can learn how to knit, but I also want to learn how to draw and I want to get back to the archery range.
But it’s like, oh, but there’s the things I should be doing. I should obviously work and hygiene and eating, but also like, oh, I should be writing. I should be reading these particular books. And it results in this feeling of constantly like I’m treading water and also the idea of the right time to do something.
Nicole: Those shoulds are, they’re terrible.
Patricia: Yeah.
Nicole: We’re shoulding all over the place.
Patricia: We’re shoulding ourselves.
Nicole: Yeah.
This really relates to this concept that we’ve talked about, and I know we bring it up a lot, is this is a, this is a type of perfectionism. In particular, in this case, it’s a perfectionism around time.
Patricia: And the perfect use of time, in the perfect time to do something.
Both: Yeah.
Nicole: We talked about perfectionism in a prior episode called There’s No Such Thing as a Five Star Cereal, but today we are gonna talk about that perfectionism around time. And this often comes in the form of, I will do (insert thing here) when work slows down, or I will use my vacation days when work slows down.
Patricia: Or I’ll start (insert self care routine) next week, next month, next full moon, whatever.
Nicole: Everything will be better after I find a new job, or start dating someone, or finally come out of the closet, or lose some weight.
Patricia: Or, I mean, often things can be better when you come out of the closet, but we’re going to talk about delaying joy.
Or it can come in the form of like, I will do this joyful thing only after I complete this to do list of things that mysteriously seems to never end.
In the U.S. especially, there is this culture of delayed gratification. Many of us, at least in, in our generations, were kind of taught you have to have your veggies before you have your dessert, and you have to do the hard thing, the thing you don’t like, before you could have the fun thing.
Nicole: I was just thinking about that. That makes me, like, the more I think about that kind of concept and what we’re teaching children with that, it just adds a whole other episode there. I also hear this a lot, though, with this, like, I’ll sleep when I’m dead culture.
Patricia: Yeah. Yeah.
I will have joy or rest or care only when the perfect opportunity arises. And that opportunity is totally an arbitrary thing I have made up for myself.
Nicole: I’m going to pause us here for just a second and want to note that what we are not talking about here is delaying things like work, chores, whatever, in order to take care of basic necessities like eating, drinking water if you really need to rest, doing something for your health care.
Go ahead and do those things up front. Like, we’re not talking about delaying that kind of stuff.
Patricia: Right. I think the way that, like, the perfect time for things has shown up recently, uh, with multiple of my loved ones within the past couple of months is that I’ve had the experience of multiple people maybe not sharing some hard things with me or asking me for support because to them, I seem like I have a lot going on.
And I have told all of them, like, I literally always have a lot going on, and there have been enough people that I’ve had this experience with within the past three weeks or so, that I was like, okay, a lot of us are doing this, and maybe we should talk about it on the show, and I’m not faulting them at all, I totally do this as well, I kind of hold myself back, because, you know, that person always seems like they have a lot going on, and while there’s definitely room for compassion and room for leaving space for someone, I think it’s also important to let people draw their own boundaries.
Nicole: You mentioned specifically this concept of, like, having a lot going on, and I really want to, like, put a spotlight on that. Work, or life, in quotes, are never going to slow down on their own.
In particular with work, like capitalism is designed specifically so that it does not slow down. It is always pushing to extract more and more and take up more time and effort. And it’s set up in a way that we are always emotionally and physically exhausted, and it’s designed to keep us, like, constantly grinding, either on a main or side hustle, or whatever.
If you let it, it will burn you out. And I’m going to call out another previous episode of ours here. Burnout is not your fault, if you want to hear us talk more about that.
Patricia: Well, and I want to push back on one word you entered there. You said, if you let it. I don’t think any, like, most people aren’t letting it. It just is.
Nicole: Sorry, that was a, that was a, if you let it in the, the larger scale system of capitalism.
Patricia: Yeah, I think it’s gonna burn you out no matter how many barriers you try to put up. Because like you said, it just, it’s designed that way.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: It’s designed that way. And, you know, I know my therapist is absolutely sick of me being like, I just need to get through this week. Like,
Both: [Laughing]
Patricia: saying that for like, 72 weeks. If you are waiting for life to slow down, it is your life, slow it down.
Nicole: [Gasp]
Patricia: Remember, you’re in control here. It’s something I’m actively trying to work on, recognizing what I can take off my plate, and what kinds of things are important to me. You could even see us do this in action when we went over our 2024 goals last episode.
We’re like, what is important to us now versus what was important to us eight months ago?
Nicole: I’m in control? I’m at the wheel?
Patricia: Well, Jesus isn’t at the wheel.
Nicole: Who let me have this kind of responsibility?
Patricia: Who’s driving this thing?
Nicole: I think this is a good place to talk about something that I brought up when we were talking about this, that when my work sent me to a couple classes on manager training.
Patricia: Which is more than some managers get,
Nicole: Yes, yes.
Patricia: I will tell you.
Nicole: And it was, it was this concept that was introduced to me called delegating tasks to the floor, or I’ve heard some people talk about to the garbage bin or recycle bin or whatever. This idea that there are some things that as they repeatedly fall to the bottom of your to do list or whatever, if they’re there for a long time, clearly they’re not that important to the ongoing maintenance of, in the situation that was introduced to me, like the functioning of the job or the office.
But you can take this at home, like, clearly they’re not necessary to the ongoing living of your life, like you can let that go just swipe it off your to do list.
Patricia: I like that. I like delegating it to the trash bin.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: Because like in my mind Oscar lives in the trash bin. So I feel like I’m just kind of, like, assigning things to Oscar the Grouch, just like, Mmm, this is work for Oscar.
And you know he’s just gonna be like, Scram!
Nicole: Yeah, he’s gonna take one look at it and be like, scram!
Patricia: Yeah! Yeah yeah yeah.
And just crumple it up and put it in his trash bin. So, yeah, I’m gonna just start delegating things to Oscar. That’s Oscar’s job.
Tiffany Dufu talks about something similar in her book, Drop the Ball, and the title comes from, you know, you have all these balls in the air, and you have to recognize some of the balls you’re keeping in the air are made of glass, and you cannot drop them.
And some balls are made of rubber, and you can drop them, they’ll bounce, they’ll roll away, they’ll be fine. You can pick them back up later, or not. And trying to recognize what are the things that you have on your plate that are glass and what are the things that you have that are rubber or non-breakable.
Nicole: And learning specifically which of the balls it is okay to drop occasionally.
Patricia: Yeah.
Nicole: And intentionally letting that happen.
Patricia: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Nicole: Yeah.
So, circling back to this kind of larger discussion about perfectionism as it relates to time, timelines are often arbitrary, especially when it comes to the ones we set for ourselves.
There is no perfect time to start a hobby or a yoga routine. Except for Tuesdays. For our long time listeners, you all will know that Tuesdays are not for starting things.
But really, there is no perfect time that exists that is the-time-after-I-have-done-every-necessary-thing-and-now-I-can-do-only-fun-things.
The only time that really exists is what is right for me right now? And that’s for all of you. It’s only what is right for me, right now.
Patricia: Stop it. No, absolutely not.
You, you can kind of take your own wheel, although I also have a hand on your wheel.
Nicole: That’s good.
Patricia: But other people get to have their own, drive their own lives.
Nicole: You can take the whole wheel. I want to go look at birds.
Patricia: I’m just going to drive, again, passenger princess over here, like, to your life. [Laughing]
There are no awards for denying yourself joy, rest, care, etc. If and when I burst into a flurry of bats, no one’s going to say during my eulogy, well she certainly left all kinds of unused vacation time, so hooray for her! Guess she wins!
Nicole: If I learned one thing from What We Do In The Shadows, it is that you do not explode into a, a flurry of bats, it is a single bat.
Patricia: Yeah, after you announce BAT!.
Nicole: Yes.
Patricia: Yes.
Nicole: Okay, good. We’re on the same page. Please don’t do that without me.
Patricia: Okay.
Nicole: The current structure of working 40 hours a week was designed around the idea that someone else would be taking care of all of the necessities at home, all of the domestic labor.
It is literally impossible to do it all, and that is me gesturing broadly to do it all, without either outsourcing some of that labor, or, letting some things go. Drop some balls. Delegate some things to the garbage bin.
Patricia: Oscar.
Nicole: Sure.
Patricia: [Laughing]
Nicole: Let Oscar handle it.
Patricia: Ah, no, but I need to do everything all the time.
Nicole: No.
Patricia: [Sigh]
I was talking to an elder a while ago who is single and maybe around 70, and she told me she was finally going to start on her bucket list, which is mostly travel. She confided in me that she was hoping she would meet the right man and do all this traveling together. But she has put this off for 10 years, waiting for the right person. And she’s done waiting. And I think about this a lot. And not even necessarily in like a, obviously a relationship wise, but just like waiting for that ideal, perfect situation,
Nicole: That moment.
Patricia: To have your joy.
Nicole: Yeah.
When we talk about this, I always think about my mom. And I, I remember a particular situation that occurred. I think I was when I was an undergrad in college, so I wasn’t living at home anymore. And this was back when she was still alive. And I remember coming home to visit and looking around the house and seeing that there was, you know, it wasn’t pristine.
And there were still some leftover house projects. I think there was an unfinished door jam somewhere inside the house. And my siblings were still in junior high, maybe early high school. Maybe late elementary school, somewhere in that range. And I remember asking my mom, like, are we ever gonna take care of this?
Like, this has been this way for
Patricia: Yeah, are we ever gonna finish painting this wall or…
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: Yeah.
Nicole: And her response is, is what sticks with me all the time now. I try to reflect on this when we’re having these discussions. She told me those kinds of things are always going to be there. There will always be something like that to take care of.
What I want to do now is focus on spending time with the family. And for her, that meant going out to the lake with my stepfather and their children and me and whoever else would come often their family friends like friends that that we all knew and spending that time and making those memories.
For her it was absolutely the correct choice. And I’m so glad that she made that choice and that she told me that very pointedly.
Patricia: Yeah, that sounds like it was a really poignant lesson.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: I even think about, like I said, this is still something I’m actively working on, and things like I had put off starting my newsletter for so long, and then this podcast, I remember we told one of my friends, like, hey, we’re finally starting a podcast, and he’s like, finally, you’ve been talking about it for years.
Nicole: [Laughing]
Patricia: And looking back now that the newsletter has over 250 issues, we have over 20 podcast episodes now. I don’t know what I was waiting for. Like, I don’t know what I was, like, was I waiting for life to slow down or some kind of sign that the time is right? It’s amazing. Now that we’re doing it, I was thinking like, oh, we never have time for this. It now just fits into our schedule. It is now just the thing we do.
Nicole: Well, and I think that’s a really great point to kind of end on. We made the time for it, and I think if you’ll allow me to connect the dot back up to one of the main things we’re trying to emphasize here. Tonight, the dishes aren’t going to get done.
There are things around the house that just aren’t going to get done tonight, and that’s okay.
Patricia: Yeah.
Nicole: Because we’re making the time for this.
Patricia: Yeah. The dishes will be there.
Nicole: Yeah.
The right time to do the thing you want to do is now. Just do the thing.
Patricia: So I think my takeaway for this episode that I really want to stick with people is that things won’t slow down unless we slow them down ourselves.
Nicole: Right. And for me, the things I want our listeners to take away is do not feel bad for taking time to enjoy life. It is okay to drop the ball on some things or give them to Oscar. In order to do that.
Music: [Music]
Patricia: I have time for a resource today. And it’s actually something that I’ve mentioned a couple of times on Patreon for paid subscribers. They will have heard me mention this resource. I’ve definitely mentioned it in my newsletter a couple of times, but I really want to put it out there. It is called the 5 Calls app and it is for progressive issues.
You can find it at 5calls.org. That’s the number 5 calls dot org. 5 Calls makes it easy for you to reach your members of Congress and make your voice heard. So the nonprofit behind it researches issues, writes scripts that clearly articulate a progressive position, figure out the most influential decision makers and collect phone numbers for their offices. All you have to do is call and that little section there was from their website.
So it is something that I’ve been chipping away at. So, for example, I would like to protect children from book bans, and that is one of the things I could call my officials about. And so I click into that, like, once I have my zip code in there, it tells me two officials that I need to call, and then, so, okay, I’ll pick this official, and it will give me their number, tell me why I’m calling this office, and then it gives me a short script to read, so I don’t even have to think about what I’m saying. It tells me where to insert my name, it says to give additional instructions if I’m leaving a voicemail so that they can make sure to tally my call.
Often I have to say my name and give my full address so that they know I’m their constituent and they can tally my call. After I make that call, It will also have a space where I can put my results either unavailable or left of voicemail or made contact. I know that many people are no longer fans of talking on the phone and I am very particular about talking on the phone.
With this, I don’t want to talk to anyone, so what I do is I call at a weird time. I call at 8 pm when their offices are closed and I leave a voicemail. They will still tally my call, I will still read the script, and I will still have my voice heard. And there’s actually a list of like 10 different things you can call about, and I plan on calling about all of them, um, you know, reforming the Supreme Court, codifying reproductive rights, being against book bans, um, fighting against KOSA, the Kids Online Safety Act, which says it’s to keep children safe, it does not.
If you’re new to this, KOSA is bad, and so I called about that. Again, it’s the 5 Calls app, and it’s an app for free, you download it on your phone, you can find it at 5calls.org or in your app store, I will definitely link to it in our show notes.
Nicole: Hey Patricia.
Patricia: Hey Nicole.
Nicole: What is filling your cup?
Patricia: Well, since the last time we recorded, we went and took an iPhone photography class.
Nicole: Oh yeah, we did do that.
Patricia: Which, I don’t have an iPhone, I have an Android, but I still learned some things.
Nicole: Mm hmm
Patricia: You know, my mom is always on my mind and she was a photographer. And I learned how to take pictures at a very young age. I learned on film, I can take a decent picture, but I haven’t made time to take pictures.
And I also want to, you know, while I can take a picture, I’m not necessarily a good photography teacher. And I know you’ve been wanting to learn too. So I signed us up for this photography class. Not only did we learn things, but it was just so great to carve out a deliberate two hours to do this thing.
Nicole: I really loved having that intentional time, as we’re talking about time today. But really making that intentional time. And yeah, I learned some, what to many people would probably be some very basic things about how to use their phone to take a picture, but it was actually really useful. And what else was useful was having the time to go experiment with them. Without that pressure, like, something about it being a class, meaning that, like, it’s okay to just try things out, not trying to take the perfect picture in the perfect moment to make sure we capture that perfect time we had together, like…
Patricia: It was a safe place to be a learner.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: Yeah.
Nicole: I loved that.
Patricia: Nicole, what’s filling your cup right now?
Nicole: Honestly, I’m still running off that high of the thrift shopping.
Patricia: You scored some amazing finds.
Nicole: Yeah, for those if you’re curious, probably one of the best deals I found was a pair of Madewell jeans for like $9.
Patricia: Yeah, which they’re normally what, like $130 or something?
Nicole: Probably right around there, yeah, if you, if we went down to the, like, Madewell store and bought them new.
Patricia: I also found a pair of trousers for you.
Nicole: Oh yeah!
Patricia: That are so great. They’re striped. Y’all, she looks like she is the ringmaster at a gay circus. It’s so good. I love them.
Nicole: I don’t know about Ringmaster at the Gay Circus, because putting me in charge of those monkeys is never a good idea, but they also definitely give, like, Tower of Terror vibes.
Patricia: Oh yeah, Hollywood Tower of Terror.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: Yeah.
Nicole: For sure.
Patricia: Well, that’s our show for today. We’d like to thank our awesome audio editor, Jen Zink. You can find her at loopdilou.com, and we’ll leave a link to that in our show notes.
Nicole: You can find the full show notes and transcript at eedapod.com. That’s E E D A P O D dot com. There, you can also find a link to our Patreon, our Bookshop link, and a link to the ongoing Enthusiastic Encouragement and Dubious Advice newsletter.
You can also find us on Instagram and Bluesky at eedapod and email us at eedapod@gmail.com.
Patricia: We are nothing if not consistent.
Nicole: We would also appreciate it so much if you would subscribe and rate us on Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts that allow ratings. It really helps other people find us.
Patricia: We would also appreciate anyone who can subscribe to us on Patreon. Support is going to help us keep this show going, especially without ads. You can find us at patreon.com/eedapod.
In the meantime, we hope you find ways to be kind to yourself. Drink some water, and read a book. We’ll be talking to you soon.
Music: [Music ends]
Nicole: Who, let me be the ringmaster of the time circus?
Patricia: I don’t know you’re, you said you were taking the wheel of your own life.
Nicole: No, I gave it to you.