Show Notes
Patricia and Nicole give a Queer 101 for straight folks who want to learn more about Pride and the queer community but don’t know where to start. We examine and define the initialism 2SLGBTQIA+ and offer some tips on supporting queer friends, family, and coworkers. Some folks are intimidated when searching the web for basic information on the queer community. It can be overwhelming or sometimes, just plain wrong information if they don’t know where to search. For queer folks, it can be exhausting to be forced into the role of “educator.” We’ve made this episode for both groups of people. It’s a place for straight folks to learn some foundational information and get recommendations for further resources and for our queer community to be able to pass this episode on to lift some of that “educator” burden.
Clarifying note: We mention that the term “heterosexual” refers mostly to cisgender men and cisgender women and we failed to also add that yes, cisgender, transgender, and nonbinary folks in relationships with other cisgender, transgender, and nonbinary folks can also be heterosexual. Everyone has the right to self-identify and choose the labels that are the best fit. We used the word “mostly” to cover this but we want to be really explicit here and we will reiterate this point in the next episode.
Mentioned on the show:
- New Patreon Tier!
- Trans Legislation Tracker
- ACLU anti-LGBTQ bills tracker
- A Quick & Easy Guide to Asexuality by Molly Muldoon & Will Hernandez
- A Quick & Easy Guide to They/Them Pronouns by Archie Bongiovanni & Tristan Jimerson
- A Quick & Easy Guide to Queer & Trans Identities by Mady G & Jules Zuckerberg
- 1969: The Stonewall Uprising via Library of Congress
Find the full show notes and official transcript on our website: eedapod.com
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Subscribe to the ongoing Enthusiastic Encouragement & Dubious Advice Newsletter
Sound editing by Jen Zink
Transcript
[Intro Music]
Patricia: Hello there, Bacon Bits! Welcome to Enthusiastic Encouragement and Dubious Advice, the podcast for folks who would rather curl into the fetal position than lean in. I’m your host, Patricia Elzie-Tuttle.
Nicole: And I’m so glad that I finally found my way out of the closet, Nicole Elzie-Tuttle. We are recording this show on June 3rd, 2024.
And it is Pride season.
Patricia: Happy Pride
Nicole: Happy Pride!
Patricia: I… I’m so glad we moved back to the Bay Area. And one of the things is we, we were living in Pasadena, for folks who don’t know. And LA is weirdly conservative sometimes. And Pride up here as a season just feels a lot more festive, like it’s an actual holiday, like you could just be walking around and people wish you Happy Pride.
So.
Nicole: Oh, and it’s more of a season here than a weekend.
Patricia: Absolutely. Absolutely. But we will, we will get into that more in a bit.
But first, I want to share some very exciting news. Um, Nicole and I are not good at watching shows. We watch shows like maybe something on Friday nights and every once in a while on a Saturday night we’ll watch something.
Nicole: Yeah, I think the most episodes of any show we get through is like two hours worth on a weekend? On a weekend where we’re really watching.
Patricia: Yeah, we, we aren’t watchers, but we just finished an entire show. We finished Netflix’s Sex Education, and I liked it.
Nicole: I really liked it, too.
Patricia: I liked it, and most of the information in there was good.
Nicole: Yeah.
So is Jillian Anderson.
Patricia: I mean, of course, Jillian Anderson, who also has a book coming out this year. Oh, I can’t remember what it’s called, but I should link it in the show notes so everyone can pre order it. Maybe it’s called Desire?
Nicole: Something like that.
Patricia: And, like, women anonymous, like, it’s women’s anonymous letters, and Jillian Anderson has gone through and, and taken some of them and, and compiled them into a book.
Nicole: Yeah, I’m really looking forward to it.
Patricia: I hope she reads the audiobook.
Nicole: Oh, no.
Patricia: Oh, yes.
Nicole: We also this weekend went to our local cherry festival.
Patricia: Yes, the San Leandro Cherry Festival.
Nicole: It had a car show with like, six cars, maybe?
Patricia: Well, and it also had one of our favorite ice cream spots, too. And we got delicious burgundy cherry ice cream.
Nicole: Oh, it was so good. I don’t normally eat my ice cream out of a cone. I totally ate this ice cream out of a cone.
Patricia: Yeah.
Nicole: It was really good.
Patricia: For those of you who are in the Bay Area, it’s Koolfi Creamery over in San Leandro. Amazing Indian inspired flavors that are… Yeah. Delightful.
Nicole: And the two women who own it are absolutely adorable.
Patricia: Yeah.
Queer owned. Love it. And the most exciting part for me, at least, and maybe for you, too.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: The San Leandro Public Library had a booth. Like, there were a lot of civic booths at, at this uh, little cherry festival downtown and the library had a booth and we could sign up for a library card. They had their tablets and they had the different cards for you to choose from.
You just had to scan a QR code with your phone and fill in your information and then they could access it from their tablet. You show your ID with your current address. And we got new library cards, which I did not expect, but it was a happy addition to my Saturday.
Nicole: Yeah, it was really great. Got some new library cards at the Cherry Festival.
My library card had a picture of their little plushie mascot on it.
Patricia: Yeah, it’s a raccoon, right?
Nicole: I think so.
Patricia: Yeah, I love it.
Nicole: Yeah, very cute.
Patreon reminder! We have a Patreon! And you can totally sign up at our Helpful Helper level, and if you do, you will have the option to fill out a survey where we will send you a rainbow prism sticker, and this is a great way to stick one of these on your window and one, remind yourselves of your favorite podcast, but also throw rainbows all over the inside of your home.
It is perfect for pride season.
Patricia: Although, so you can put it on your, a window at home. One of our listeners and friends put it on their car and sent me pictures of the kiddos in the backseat with rainbows on them.
Nicole: Oh, that’s really cool.
Patricia: Yeah. Yeah, it’s pretty great.
Nicole: Yeah, so if you want to throw rainbows all over your children,
Patricia: Just throw rainbows all over your children, subscribe to our Patreon.
And, so, we’ve also been doing, we, the royal we, Nicole has not been doing this. I, I have been posting a weekly accountability post and thread where I talk about that one thing I’ve been avoiding that I’m going to do during the week and then other people comment what they’re going to do and we just support each other and then I check in in a week.
It’s no pressure. I don’t check in specifically like, hey, you, did you do this thing? But we’re just kind of being accountabilibuddies and showing up and being like, okay, I’m going to do this thing and you’re going to do that thing. And often it’s call a doctor or one of our friends is doing some yoga classes.
And yeah, I think people are responding and it’s actually pretty fun. I like, I like the community that we’re building here. And another thing for Patreon, my wife is brilliant, everyone.
Nicole: Thank you.
Patricia: And so, you know, this podcast is based off the long running and still running Enthusiastic Encouragement and Dubious Advice newsletter.
And that newsletter is a six dollars a month subscription and their issue comes out every Friday. And on Patreon, you have helpful helpers for three dollars. So my plan is by the time you are hearing this show, there is going to be a new Patreon level where you can both support the podcast and get the newsletter at a discounted price.
So that new price will be eight dollars. If you paid for them separately, it would be nine dollars, but this new level will be eight dollars, and you will get access to our paid accountability posts and whatever else paid stuff we come up with.
Nicole: It’s an Enthusiastic Encouragement and Dubious Advice combo meal. Got a…
Patricia: Pizza Hut Taco Bell situation.
Nicole: I was thinking more like content for your ears and content for your eyeballs.
Patricia: Hmm.
Nicole: No?
Patricia: Maybe.
Nicole: Maybe?
Patricia: Maybe.
Nicole: Combo meal level.
Music: [Interlude Music]
Patricia: So today is our first, I’m calling it a queer centric show, but it’s our show. They’re all queer centric shows. Like we exist and you’re listening to us, but I think we’re going to be talking about a lot more queer content because it is Pride. The way I put it, and the way sometimes my friends would put it, is that we live in a bit of a bubble.
Especially in California, and especially in the Bay Area.
Nicole: And especially in our friend group.
Patricia: And especially in our friend group. And Sometimes we catch ourselves taking for granted our knowledge of queer culture and queer history that folks either not in our friend group or in the Bay Area or California or wherever don’t know about or have access to.
And we want this podcast to be a very safe place for folks to learn. I know that sometimes when there is a group of people, it can be really intimidating to ask what you may think is a silly question and we want to kind of do a bit of a Queer 101 for folks who may not have this information and we want it to be a really safe place and we also still want people to be accountable for our actions and the things we know and don’t know.
Nicole: Okay, so, let’s start off with the basics here. You used a word, queer, in your little preamble here. How about we start there? What does queer mean?
Patricia: Ooh, yeah, that is a good question. Again, it’s It’s one of those things I take for granted, and it’s just a word we use, and it’s the word I use to describe myself as well.
So, let’s start with that. 2SLGBTQIA+. There is no official agreed upon initialism, and different groups and communities use different combinations of these letters or other letters or different words to describe sexuality and gender minorities. However, if you’re listening to this show, then a breakdown of 2SLGBTQIA+ would be most helpful.
Nicole: Again, you used a word there. Initialism.
Patricia: Ooh! I get to take a word nerd detour!
Nicole: Word nerd!
Patricia: So, I said initialism, which is taking the first initials of a bunch of different words and saying, like, the first, the first letter of all these words. And I didn’t say abbreviation, which is an abbreviation is a shortened version of a word.
Nicole: Okay.
Patricia: And then an acronym,
Nicole: mmhmm
Patricia: a lot of people call abbreviations or initials acronyms. An acronym is actually like the first letter of multiple words that create a new word, like scuba, self contained underwater breathing apparatus. And now scuba is a word of its own, so now that’s an acronym.
Nicole: If that’s an acronym, can you give an example of an abbreviation?
Patricia: Sure. I think ETC for et cetera.
Nicole: Ooh.
Patricia: It’s probably an abbreviation.
Nicole: Well done.
Patricia: Thank you.
Nicole: I, my brain short circuited and I couldn’t come up with any, so.
Patricia: I’ve never seen an abbreviation.
Nicole: In my life.
Patricia: In my life.
So, anyway, initialism.
Nicole: Alright, so then, let’s break down the initialism of 2SLGBTQIA+
Patricia: Let’s start at the very beginning. 2S stands for Two Spirit. Two Spirit is a term used by some Indigenous North Americans to describe Native people who fulfill a traditional third gender or other gender variant social role in their communities. I am not an expert on Two Spirit identities, but what I do know from various Indigenous content creators I follow, Two Spirit is not the same as transgender.
And if you’re curious, there is a lot of content out there by Indigenous folks who know what they’re talking about, and I really, really encourage you to, if you are learning about the Two Spirit identity to really get that content from Indigenous folks.
Nicole: Absolutely. Yeah. That’s going to be really important, particularly with the Two Spirit community, is making sure you are getting that information from
Patricia: Yeah
Nicole: the Two Spirit community and Indigenous peoples.
Okay, the next one is the L, and that stands for Lesbian, and
Patricia: Why did you say it like a question?
Nicole: I don’t know.
But, for those who are unaware, Lesbian is the common term for women who love women. I think you could say typically exclusively.
Patricia: Typically exclusively, but I think, thank you for saying that. That’s a reminder that these identity terms are what people use for themselves.
Nicole: Yes.
Patricia: And so, sometimes we, we, you don’t get to put parameters on, yes, you are this thing or no, you are not this thing.
And, and so, yes, for most people who are lesbians, they are women who love other women.
Nicole: Yes. And yeah, I think it’s important, like you said, to mention that the boundaries of these labels are not always clear cut and distinct lines.
Patricia: Absolutely. And also, I’m gonna put it out there, trans women can be lesbians.
Like, this is not just cis women who love other cis women. No. Women, umbrella term, women who love other women.
Nicole: Absolutely.
Patricia: You know, and for my book people out there, we often see that term sapphic.
Nicole: Mm hmm.
Patricia: When we are looking at books, and usually that has, just means that the book has a women loving women element
Nicole: Yes.
Patricia: to it.
Nicole: Uh, which means that one or more of the characters may not identify as a lesbian, they may instead identify as a term we’ll get to in a few minutes, bisexual. But because they are women who love women in the book, it gets the label sapphic.
Patricia: Yeah.
So, G is for Gay. That is the umbrella term for men who love men.
I think also, sometimes the term gay is used more broadly where, you know, I definitely say I am gay.
Nicole: Yeah, I’ve said that, too.
Patricia: But when we are looking at this initialism and thinking about the different groups that are represented, it is men who love men.
And B is for Bisexual.
Nicole: I mentioned that a minute ago.
Patricia: You mentioned that a minute ago. You know, there, there’s a constant battle between some people where some people think bisexual, which bi means two, so usually people are like, oh, it’s only men and women and that it somehow enforces a gender binary, which is to say the idea that there are only two genders.
But the way I think of the term bisexual is someone who uses that term, it could still mean two, but it could mean people like me and people not like me.
Nicole: It’s my understanding that that’s actually how it is defined in the original bisexual manifesto, is loving people of the same gender and loving people of different genders.
Patricia: Yeah, and so there are some people who also use the term pansexual, and it’s not for those of us who like to collect Le Creuset.
Nicole: Wah wah.
Patricia: It is for people who are interested in many genders, romantically, sexually. And I think the one other thing I want to talk about, because we’re also going to talk about Pride a bit, is there’s often a, what’s referred to as a bi invisibility, uh, sometimes bisexual people get overlooked or left out or people don’t think they are real queer people because the relationship they are in might look like a straight relationship, such as a bi woman in a marriage or relationship with a cis man.
By the way, these bisexuals are also very valid, just in case I didn’t make that clear.
Nicole: The next letter in the initialism is T, and this stands for transgender, and transgender is an umbrella term for people whose gender identity differs from that that was assigned to them at birth. So, In that case, this is one of my letters.
To kind of clear up that kind of wordy jumble, one would say that I was assigned male at birth, but that is not my gender identity. I identify as a woman. I am a woman. I don’t just identify as one. I am one.
Patricia: Yes, you are a woman.
Nicole: My gender identity differs from that that was assigned to me at birth. And transgender is kind of an umbrella term.
It now encompasses people who do reside within the gender binary. This includes transgender women, transgender men, but it also includes the nonbinary category for people who do not identify as men or women.
Patricia: Or sometimes both.
Nicole: Or sometimes both. There may be people who identify as both. They may be gender fluid, they may
Patricia: be genderqueer.
There are, there are many terms that fall under this
Nicole: Yes.
Patricia: umbrella.
Nicole: I also do want to specify that you may have also heard a similar word, transsexual, and this is a word that has really fallen out of use in favor of transgender instead. You may still encounter people who use the word transsexual, but I would caution anyone who does not apply that label to themselves against using it.
Patricia: Yeah, I think that is a very important point about many identity labels, is people can refer to themselves however they want. And it’s important to still know what are the acceptable terms to refer to people, while also recognizing there are some folks who use, use different terms for themselves. And, and asking, too, I think, if you hear someone use a term for themself,
Nicole: mmhmm
Patricia: depending on your relationship with them, of course, don’t just ask people on the street, but I think that is valid.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: So, Q is for Queer, and this is a reclaimed word. It used to be a slur. Some people still view it as a slur, especially older generations, but for people, I mean, even my age, I’m, I’m the tail end of Gen X. Like, I use this word for myself. And it is, again, used as an umbrella term. It could mean, like, the whole, like I mentioned, queer community.
Like, it’s very widespread, but it can also, the thing I like about the word is that it’s very
Nicole: nonspecific.
Patricia: It’s very nonspecific, but also, I mean, I could get very specific, but you’re gonna have to listen to me for about 72 hours straight, right, like, like, I, like, you, you don’t have the time or bandwidth to listen to all the specific ways in which this word is particular for a person. So it can be very individual and at the same time it could be very broad. Right? And sometimes I am very broad. Like, what does that mean for you? Eh, weird think Gonzo from the Muppets, right? Like , that is my kind of queer
Nicole: Aww Gonzo and Camilla.
Patricia: Gonzo and Camilla.
But I think, and that’s, for me, that’s the beauty of that word.
And I think one of the other things Q stands for sometimes is questioning. So recognizing the validity of folks who don’t quite know where in this initialism they fit yet, if they fit anywhere at all. Or sometimes in the initialism you’ll see two Qs, so that second Q is typically for questioning.
Nicole: The next letter in the initialism is I, and this letter is usually used for the term intersex.
Intersex is an umbrella term for people whose, I want to be very careful and precise with my wording here, intersex is for people whose sex does not neatly align within the traditional gender binary, or sex binary, as it is typically conceived of by the medical community.
Patricia: So, I think we have done a disservice.
You are using the terms sex and gender, and we haven’t defined those.
Nicole: Yes.
Patricia: And, could be a little gray area in this, there’s a much longer conversation, but when you’re using it in these terms, you’re talking about possible chromosomes?
Nicole: It could be chromosomal, it could be hormonal, it can be other genetics.
Patricia: Other physical
or genetics.
Nicole: Or other physical differences.
Patricia: And so when we’re talking about intersex, that’s what we’re talking about.
Nicole: Yes. And this usually refers to a whole host of, and, and I’m going to use some more medical side of terms because I work in the medical field. Things where individuals maybe have, instead of the traditional XX or XY chromosomes, they may have XXY.
They may be XY chromosomally, but their body doesn’t respond to androgens or testosterone and so their body develops in a typically female way. This may be people who have more ambiguous primary sex characteristics that may not neatly fall into one category or the other. There is a whole range of people that could fit into this umbrella.
Something to note is that typically, in some medical communities, you may still see this referred to as, uh, differences in sexual differentiation. And that term or that phrase is falling out of favor in term, in favor of intersex. And I believe there is a push in the intersex community to start using that label more within the medical field, as well as, uh, a whole host of pushes for how the medical field manages intersex people’s health care, and this primarily often revolves around non consensual surgeries very early in life.
Patricia: Thank you. I am reminded why we’re doing this episode because I know some of our circle who are listening to this already know these things. And I remember I had posted a shortened version of this initialism on Facebook a while ago. And I had someone who was from elementary school and she is now elsewhere in the country, and she is not queer, and she didn’t know what some of the letters were, and we take for granted that we know this information.
So, if you already know it, gold star. If you’re just now learning, two gold stars.
Nicole: Yeah, welcome.
Patricia: You’re learning. Welcome.
The A. The A covers a lot of things. It is for Asexual, Aromantic, Agender. Let me give you some kind of overviews of those words.
So, Asexual are people who do not experience sexual attraction or who are not interested in having, um, sex.
And Aromantic are people who do not experience romantic attraction. This is not to say that these people don’t date, and sometimes there are people who are asexual or ace who do have sex. There’s a lot of individuality around it,
Nicole: mmhmm
Patricia: and I suggest for a really good, like, beginner level book is The Quick and Easy Guide to Asexuality. And we’re going to link a bunch of resources in the show notes for further learning.
The other term I used is agender. And Agender is a term, that basically is people without gender. Some agender people identify as nonbinary, some do not. It’s almost like some folks opened the door and looked in the room where all the gender is and they said, no thanks, none for me.
Nicole: And then they walked off in a completely different direction.
Patricia: Absolutely. So typically the A’s, the A’s, the A’s doing a lot of heavy lifting in this initialism.
Nicole: One thing we do want to make very clear here, A is not for ally. Ally is something you do. It’s not something you are. You don’t get to just be an ally. You engage in allyship.
Patricia: Yeah.
Nicole: And also just because you’re, you engage in allyship doesn’t mean you get, automatically get a letter in the initialism
Patricia: or a flag or a flag.
Nicole: Sorry, allies. We love you, but this one’s not for you.
Patricia: The plus at the end of this is for folks who don’t feel represented by the letters, but are in a sexual orientation or gender minority, and also talking about people, this does not include I’m looking at you, kinky straight people, this is, you’re straight.
Like, there’re plenty of kinky queer people who this initialism covers, many folks. And in that group, it does not cover.
Nicole: There’s a couple other terms we will probably throw around if we haven’t already.
Patricia: Or that you’ve heard, and you don’t, again, if you’re not in our bubble, you don’t necessarily know.
Nicole: And I wanted to dive into some of those really quick.
One that has gained a lot of steam recently is the term cisgender. And this is a word that is often used in contrast to the term transgender. And in this case, cis as the prefix is, or I should say means, the same as. So if transgender refers to someone whose gender identity is different from that assigned at birth. Cisgender would be a reference to someone whose gender identity is the same as was assigned at birth.
Yes, patricia, you’ve got your hand raised.
Patricia: I do. So, to put it very simply, you are cisgender if, upon being born, the doctor said, it’s a this. And you’re now an adult, and you’re like, yep, that doctor was right.
Nicole: Yes.
You may also occasionally hear the term cishet. And this is an abbreviation.
Patricia: Ooh. Is it a
Nicole: It’s a
Patricia: It’s a, it’s a compound abbreviation, I think.
Nicole: It’s a compound abbreviation.
Patricia: For cisgender.
Nicole: Cisgender.
Patricia: And heterosexual.
Nicole: And heterosexual. This refers to someone, as we mentioned earlier, who is both cisgender. Their gender identity matches that which the doctor said they were when they were born, and they are heterosexual, meaning they are attracted primarily to people whose gender identity is different than their own.
Patricia: Mmm.
Nicole: Do you wanna?
Patricia: Mmm.
Nicole: Do you wanna?
Patricia: Yeah.
Nicole: Did I misspeak a little bit there?
Patricia: I…
Nicole: Is it gender identity or someone whose sex is different from their own?
Patricia: Well, no, but like, I mean, if there is a trans woman
Nicole: mmhmm
Patricia: with a nonbinary person, their gender is different.
Nicole: mmm
Patricia: But they would not say they’re heterosexual, right?
Nicole: That is true. Yeah.
Patricia: Usually when we’re saying heterosexual, it’s often along that gender binary of men and women, and mostly cis men and cis women.
Nicole: Being attracted to each other.
Patricia: Attracted to each other.
Nicole: Yes.
Patricia: So, yeah.
Nicole: I will note here, that for our, our word geeks, if we want to get a little back to the word nerd we mentioned earlier, the prefixes hetero and homo, which are used in heterosexual and homosexual to describe sexual attraction, are Greek prefixes.
The prefixes cis and trans that are used in cisgender and transgender are Latin prefixes. And this was done deliberately because it would confuse a heck of a lot of people if we told people that they were heterosexual but homogendered.
Patricia: It’s pretty amazing though.
Nicole: So
Patricia: I mean, I might start using it.
Nicole: So that’s, that’s the I guess quick and easy guide to the, I guess we should say, we didn’t mention, we mentioned heterosexual. It is usually the contrasting word to homosexual, which typically means those who are attracted to people whose gender is the same as their own.
Patricia: But again, gender gets a little Gender Wibbly wobbly.
Nicole: It does.
So, typically, this is often in reference specifically to the L and the G. It is women who are attracted to women and men who are attracted to men.
Patricia: And I think, you know, mentioning that a lot of this is all wibbly wobbly is also recognizing that that plus sign too is, we don’t necessarily have the language to describe how expansive some of these identities can be, and language is always evolving and changing and growing.
Nicole: Well, and I think there’s also something to be said for as much as we want to try to fit everything into its neat little box for describing and categorizing and labeling, people aren’t actually that clean and neat and able to fit into little boxes.
What people do can be messy, and that’s okay, and so the lines between a lot of these labels are blurry.
Patricia: So, Nicole.
Nicole: Yes, Patricia.
Patricia: I also wanted to do this show because years ago, but not too many years ago, I saw someone asking in the comments of someone else’s post, why do we even have a pride month?
Nicole: Because we need a month to wrap ourselves in rainbow and June is beautiful out.
Patricia: Sweetie, I wrap myself in rainbow every day of every month.
Nicole: No, I was being very facetious there.
Let’s have a quick history lesson. In, or prior to, the mid 1900s, it was often illegal to be queer. And one of the ways that queer people gathered was at bars.
And these were usually bars where all the windows were blacked out so no one could see in or out. And queer people could hope to gather together in community and have a good time. What this also means is that very, very frequently, the police would show up and beat everybody up and take them to jail.
And in late June, 1969, There was a bar called the Stonewall Inn, I believe it’s in Greenwich Village in New York City, and the police showed up, and they tried to beat everybody up, and everybody got tired of it.
Patricia: They’re like, not today.
Nicole: Not today. And they fought back. And this happened on a couple of consecutive nights, where many people came back the next night, wanted to have a good time, and the police came back and tried again.
And many of the people there said, not tonight either, and they fought back. They fought back against the police. And this is what is known as the Stonewall Rebellion. And this is why you have many organizations later named Stonewall, organizations around the world that support LGBTQIA+ rights.
So that was in 1969. A year later, many of those same people organized a march in New York City down Christopher Street, and this was the Christopher Street Liberation Day March. This happened in late June 1970. And that same year, a couple other marches in support of, at the time, what was called gay rights, were organized in other cities in the U.S., I think Chicago and Los Angeles were some of the first ones in 1970, and this is what later turned into being the first gay pride parades. In subsequent years, they held this march again and again, and every year, more cities around the country, and later the globe, started having marches and parades to mark the event as well.
I do want to say that while the Stonewall Rebellion is one of the most well known instances of people in the queer community fighting back against this kind of police violence, subjugation. It was not the first. There were several instances dating back to at least the 1950s, which would include an event at Cooper’s Donuts in Los Angeles.
Earlier in the 1960s, like in 1966, there was a rebellion at Compton’s Cafeteria in San Francisco. And again, later at the Black Cat Club in 1967 in Los Angeles as well. And I believe if you do some research around, you can find several other instances throughout the 50s, 60s, and 70s, but these are some of the more well known.
Patricia: Yeah. And we continue to celebrate Pride because there are still people, children, teens, adults, who think they’re better off dead than being queer. It is so important. I’m getting all teary eyed.
Nicole: I know.
Patricia: It is so important for those of us who are queer adults to show that we are living happy, fulfilling lives with love and community.
I was really fortunate because my mom was in the army when she got pregnant with me, and her girlfriend at the time, uh, you know, it wasn’t, it wasn’t necessarily, it wasn’t okay to be gay in the army in the 70s.
Nicole: It actually wasn’t, oh, it wasn’t legal to be gay and employed by the federal government until the mid 1990s.
Patricia: Wow, that’s wild.
Nicole: When President Clinton signed the, what is known as the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell bill. Up until then, if you were gay, you were not allowed to be employed by the federal government, which included the military.
Patricia: Which included the military.
Nicole: mmhmm
Patricia: So my mom was pregnant and her girlfriend, the story I had gotten, which I’ll have to reach out to my mom’s girlfriend, I’m still in contact with her, is that of course if there is a pregnant woman in the army in the 70s, they’re not going to let her girlfriend that she’s not supposed to have also leave the army to help raise this child. So the story goes is that my mom’s girlfriend stole a jeep to get discharged.
Nicole: Cause she was also in the army.
Patricia: Cause she was also in the army.
Nicole: Mm hmm.
Patricia: To get discharged to help raise me. So, you know, they broke up when I was, I don’t know, eight or something like that. But in my childhood, though, my home was filled with all kinds of different queer people, but also like my mom is Filipino and white and my dad’s Black and my mom’s girlfriend was white.
And like, there were just all different types of people in my life growing up. And I was so fortunate because that’s what normal was to me. Like it was, like I would see some of my classmates and their families would all look the same. And I just wouldn’t understand. Like, if you could just the, just the possibility of being able to love anyone was never a question in my growing up.
Nicole: That’s really, I love hearing this story because it’s, I know we’re getting towards the end of our episode, but I want to say that’s a big contrast from my growing up. There were, as far as I was and am really aware, no queer people in my world growing up. And importantly, there weren’t any trans people either.
And at the time trans people weren’t that visible. The most I got to see of trans people growing up was on daytime talk shows.
Patricia: Mmm
Nicole: And those were not good examples of happy trans people living their lives. And that was the only examples I had seen growing up, which I think is part of why I was so terrified of acknowledging that, yeah, I’m trans.
I didn’t have any good examples. It wasn’t anything that seemed okay.
Patricia: Yeah, I, and this is, this is a big reason we have Pride is because, like I said, there are young people out there, especially. There are also,
Nicole: Older people.
Patricia: older people out there.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: Who aren’t out yet, too, who, it’s important for us to show that we could live happy, happy lives as queer,
Nicole: Yeah
Patricia: out adults, and, and it’s part of the reason I, I mentor and I, and we have this podcast.
Nicole: Absolutely.
Patricia: Um, to also just normalize it.
Nicole: The other important thing to note though, is that it is still not completely safe to be queer or trans in the United States. I’m going to say that again. It is still not completely safe to be queer or trans in the United States, and it is becoming less safe.
In 2023, there were over six hundred anti-trans pieces of legislation entered or attempted to be passed at both the state and federal government levels. In 2024, there have already been 586 pieces of anti-trans or anti-LGBT legislation introduced that are being tracked by the ACLU.
Patricia: And we will also link resources that track specifically the anti-trans legislation, so you could also see what is going on in your state.
Nicole: And what this means in particular depends on the laws, but a lot of it revolves around outlawing books. It may be outlawing healthcare that is necessary for us to live our lives.
It may be even outlawing any mention of queer or trans people in educational settings.
Patricia: Well, and people hear things about bathroom bills and
Nicole: yeah
Patricia: don’t look at the wider, wider meaning of that is, it is outlawing trans folks ability to be in public.
Nicole: Yeah, if I can’t be more than a couple hours from my home round trip because I’m not allowed to use a toilet in public, that really severely limits my ability to be in public. And this also means at work.
Patricia: yeah
Nicole: Another thing I do want to note is that even some of the, what we would consider rights today are not fully safe. And by this, I mean that our right to be intimate in the privacy of our own home. This was only granted to us in 2003 by the Supreme Court. Our right to be married, Patricia and I, to be married, was only granted to us by the Supreme Court in 2015.
And the Supreme Court cases that gave us these rights were specifically cited by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas in his concurring opinion in the Supreme Court case that overturned Roe v. Wade. Stating that the same tactics that were used to overturn Roe v. Wade could be used to overturn these other things that we consider rights. Our right to be intimate in the privacy of our own home, our right to be married. These are not rights given to us by the constitution, they were given to us by the Supreme Court, and they can just as easily be taken away. So even those things that we consider stable rights are very, very new, and they are already being targeted to be taken away again.
Patricia: Yeah, thank you. This reminds me again to us living in a bubble, and if you aren’t tracking these things, if these things don’t affect you, you may not understand the scope of the situation.
Nicole: And how fragile some of it is.
Patricia: Yeah.
I’m also thinking about more specifically, because all of that is also very overwhelming, but about some more specific things that we want folks to know, and it could be folks outside of our bubbles, but also, um, folks in our bubbles, like Uh, cisgender queers aren’t always necessarily up to speed on transgender stuff and a lot of the community isn’t knowledgeable about asexuality and we all have room to learn and grow.
So we’re gonna go over maybe just a few things that you might find helpful in your allyship to queer folks.
Nicole: Some of these I’m very amused by. But they, we’re going to say them because they are things that either have been said to us, or some of our friends,
Patricia: yep
Nicole: by very well meaning folks out there. So I’m gonna kick it off with, when someone comes out to you, don’t say, I always thought so, or, I knew it.
Patricia: That’s so icky.
Like, that’s not helpful.
It’s not kind.
Nicole: I think that’s really important. It is not kind. Recognize that the person who’s coming out to you is probably incredibly nervous about doing so, and they are most likely afraid of losing you as an important person in their life. And to just kind of dismiss it by saying, I always knew, or I always thought so, it’s, it’s not helpful.
I think a better response is, thank you for sharing that with me.
Patricia: Yeah, thank you for sharing that with me. Is there anything specific you would like me to do to support you? Right, because sometimes there could be a name update, there could be pronoun update, something like that.
Nicole: Similarly, if someone comes out to you as trans, don’t be overly gendered with your language, and by this, I mean the like, hey, LADIES!
Patricia: Hey, girlfriend!
Nicole: Hey, girlfriend! Do you GIRLS want to go out for a GIRLS night? We get it. You’re trying. But also, the heavy emphasis, and the heavy handed with, handedness with it is really obvious and really kind of continues to point out how we don’t fully fit with your image of whatever that gendered experience is.
And that you’re trying really hard and we appreciate you trying hard, but we don’t want to be reminded every time. And by that, I mean, we just, we’re trying, I’m just trying to live my life as a woman out here. I don’t need you to be super heavy handed and making sure that you’re reinforcing that information to me.
Patricia: Yeah, and I think it’s also really obvious if you don’t do this with other groups of people.
Nicole: Right.
Patricia: If this is not your normal way of communicating with people. And, you know, there are, of course, things you can do. I think a lot about your, one of your grandmothers.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: And when you came out to her and she was, she had to be like 82, 84, something like that.
Nicole: Somewhere in there.
Patricia: She immediately made the switch. New name, new pronouns, all your greeting cards, said granddaughter, and she was on top of things.
Nicole: But it wasn’t heavy handed.
Patricia: It wasn’t heavy handed. It wasn’t anything different than she did with other granddaughters.
Nicole: No, and it was really just all in line with how we’d interacted before, it was just a clean switch.
She even gave me a little nickname.
Patricia: She even gave you a little nickname.
Nicole: Without even asking for it.
Patricia: She was lovely. And, and also, if Grammie at 84 can do this, I, age is not an excuse.
Nicole: No.
Patricia: That is, that is not a valid excuse. And also, like, that excuse of, well, I’ve known this person their whole lives. I think she was literally there when you were born, like…
Nicole: Uh, I think it was two weeks after.
Patricia: Still.
Nicole: Yeah. But.
Patricia: That’s no excuse.
Nicole: It’s no excuse.
Patricia: I think something else to think about, and this might be relevant for you that’s why I’m sharing, is being conscious about icebreakers at work. I have found that especially once a lot of people were working from home, a lot of zoom icebreakers and things like that.
And sometimes people will be like, okay, everyone bring in a high school photo of you. That is not inclusive of a lot of people for a lot of reasons, like not only for trans folks who maybe transitioned well after high school, but also folks may not have pictures of themselves during high school for a number of reasons. Poverty, foster system, uh, fire or natural disaster.
Nicole: Yeah.
And it may just make for some really awkward moments in your supposed to be fun icebreaker.
Patricia: Yeah.
I think, you know, one of my teams at my day job did something very well. Instead of bringing in a baby picture or bringing in a high school picture, they said, share with us a picture you like of yourself.
Nicole: Yeah, that’s really good.
Patricia: That’s, that’s a really good one.
Another icebreaker that I have come across that, again, I think I might have even mentioned this in a different show, but, uh, is asking about name history. Um, like, why did your parents name you that?
Nicole: They didn’t.
Patricia: They didn’t. And this could be a problem for a number of reasons.
Again, for trans reasons, it could also be a problem for folks who don’t know their parents, maybe in the foster system, just people who don’t want to share things about their name.
Nicole: People who don’t go by their birth name or have deliberately changed their name for a variety of reasons, which may also include not having a good relationship with their family.
Patricia: Absolutely.
Nicole: I’ve known a couple people who have done that.
Patricia: Yeah.
I have, I’ve known a couple people who just hate their birth name.
Nicole: Yeah.
Patricia: Too. And I think, also, I know I’ve mentioned on a different show, especially when it comes to last names
Nicole: mmhmm
Patricia: and Black Americans, that is a conversation that always feels terrible for me to have because Elzie is a German, it’s a bastardization of a German name and I am not German. It’s because the people who enslaved my ancestors had a German last name and that is slavery every day. I think about it every day when I type my email. So again, it’s not a fun icebreaker. And I think these are things that we don’t think about.
Nicole: A lot of people, and in particular, as we’re talking about gender and sexuality, cishet people don’t think about as much.
Patricia: Right. Right.
And I think I could go on an entire rant about this one, but I know we have already been talking for a long time. They, them pronouns. Yes, they are grammatically correct.
Nicole: [Gasp]
Patricia: Jane Austen used them. Geoffrey Chaucer used them. William Shakespeare used them.
Nicole: Even Willie Shakes?
Patricia: Even ol’ Billy Shakes. And you know what?
If you are listening to this show, you, uh, you are speaking English, you have used them, too. Like, if you are at a restaurant and you look over, you might say, ah, someone left their keys on their table. Like, the keys obviously belong to one person.
Nicole: I hope they’re able to find them.
Patricia: [Laughter]
Nicole: I hope they come back for them.
Patricia: I remember there was a restaurant we liked in Pasadena, and we would sit, and there were always people trying to parallel park, and we would just sit in the window and watch people parallel park. And we often said like, wow, they do not know what they are doing because we couldn’t see in the car. We did, we, and also, even if we could, we weren’t going to assume what their gender was or whatever. Uh, so you use these all the time, but, oh, it’s grammatically correct. Even if it wasn’t grammatically correct, there’s no punishment. No one is going to strike you down for using grammar that you don’t think is correct.
And on top of that, and I know I’m just going off now, the idea of bad grammar is classist. And ew. There are plenty of resources for this. And again, we’re going to put them in the show notes, but there is A Quick and Easy Guide to They/Them Pronouns. And also a grammar book, which just came out this year that I freaking love. It’s called Says Who? A Kinder, Funner Usage Guide for Everyone Who Cares About Words. And she definitely has a whole chapter on they them pronouns and it is [MWAH] beautiful.
Nicole: The bottom line here is it costs nothing to offer someone the basic respect of referring to them, them, how they want to be referred to.
We easily refer to Pokemon by their evolved names. I have yet to meet anyone who is sitting there, continuing to call Haunter Ghastly,
Patricia: [Laughter]
Nicole: or
Patricia: [Laughter]
Nicole: no one’s calling a Charizard a Charmeleon.
Patricia: [Laughter]
Nicole: Although it’s probably a really good way to upset a Pokemon kid.
Patricia: [Laughter]
Nicole: But we all understand this. People’s names change. People’s pronouns change. It’s not going to hurt you to just be respectful of how people want to be referred to. It’s really not that difficult. And if you’ve got someone in your life who has recently changed their names or pronouns and you find yourself struggling with it, one, if you do struggle with it in front of them, apologize, correct yourself, and move on.
Do not make a big deal out of it.
Patricia: Yeah, don’t center yourself.
Nicole: Yeah, and two, practice at home. This is my biggest recommendation. Practice at home. If they’ve changed their name, look at a, point to a picture and say their name. Talk about them with their name, looking at their picture. If they’ve changed their pronoun and you have another person in the home, talk about them with their new pronouns.
Practice so that when you get to see that person, you can get it right and it will help them just feel more comfortable with you.
Patricia: Yeah.
So for more information, we really tried to keep this at 101. We recommend, there’s actually a bunch of these Quick and Easy Guides that I’ve mentioned. So there’s The Quick and Easy Guide for Asexuality.
There’s The Quick and Easy Guide for Queer and Trans Identities. There’s The Quick and Easy Guide for They/Them Pronouns. And what they are, are little pocket sized. books that are also comics. And they are, I love them, they’re great. I also recommend the book for further learning titled He/She/They: How We Talk About Gender and Why It Matters by Schuyler Bailar.
Nicole: I would like to recommend for those who are interested in more information about the Stonewall Rebellion, the Library of Congress’s webpage about the gay rights movement and the Stonewall rebellion, and we will provide a link to that in the show notes as well.
Patricia: And, you know, I’m sure at some point we will get into more information about more queer things.
So this is not our last queer show.
Nicole: And we hope this particular episode doesn’t get us an explicit rating, but if it does, that’s part of the problem. And that’s why we still need Pride, because there’s nothing explicit about anything we have talked about today.
Patricia: So, takeaways, we didn’t say it, I mean, there’s a ton of information to take away here. But, I want to note that if you are queer and not out yet, you are still a beloved, valid part of the community.
Nicole: And when you’re ready to come out, we’ll be here.
Patricia: Glitter and all!
Nicole: [Laughter] I didn’t note down a takeaway to start, but I think my takeaway for this episode is, it’s helpful for everyone to learn a little bit of the history as to why we have Gay Pride during June, and to recognize that it’s still needed. There’s a reason we have it. Yes, it seems like a big party a lot of the time, but there’s a lot going on that is still reason for us to need it.
And if you can take in even just a little bit of what we talked about today and share it, it may go a long way to help easing that and making it easier for others out there.
Patricia: Well said.
Nicole: Thanks, because I feel like I stumbled over it a bit.
We don’t have a resource today, but we did mention a lot of books.
Patricia: And the Library of Congress.
Nicole: And the Library of Congress website. All of these materials that we have mentioned will be in the show notes. Please head there if you would like to access any of them.
Hey, Patricia.
Patricia: Yeah, Nicole?
Nicole: What’s filling your cup?
Patricia: So, what is filling my cup right now are things that I am anticipating this coming weekend, so they will have happened by the time this show airs, which is, it is cherry picking season here, and every year, uh, we gather a group of friends and go cherry picking. It is something I did as a child with my family. I have very happy memories, uh, sitting on my cousin’s shoulders and picking cherries. And so now a group of our friends, we go cherry picking and then we go to a certain fruit stand I like, and we get a lot of berries and whatever from there. And then we go to In-N-Out Burger and it’s beautiful. And then we come home and you and I pit cherries and freeze cherries and I make jam, and we eat a lot of fruit.
Nicole: I look forward to eating what is probably too many cherries.
Patricia: Yeah.
No such thing.
And the other thing is, we have signed up for our first C S A, and I think it stands for Community Supported Agriculture. So it’s basically you buy in to a bunch of farms and you kind of like get a piece of that and then you get fruits and vegetables and honey and whatever, um, in, in this one it is a biweekly, so every other week, box of in season fruits, veg, produce. And this one specifically that we joined, I think it’s from Farms to Grow. It’s specifically Black farmers and farmers from marginalized communities. And this is a way that we have found that we can practice some community care and give money directly to the farmers.
And kind of circumvent the grocery store a little bit, um, in some ways, at least when it comes to produce. And I’m also really excited because we don’t get to pick what is in this CSA box. So I’m sure we’re going to get a lot of things that we don’t normally eat. And I am excited at the prospect of new to us things.
Nicole: Yeah, little five year old Nicole would be freaking out over the prospect of eating unknown vegetables.
Patricia: Oh, I’m sure.
Nicole: And yet, here I am, very excited to see what we get and try some new things.
Patricia: Nicole, what’s filling your cup?
Nicole: I’m gonna keep with the food theme here. I’ve been really enjoying your cooking.
Patricia: Yay!
Nicole: You, I, we went for a couple weeks where you hadn’t, you usually cook a big meal on Sundays for us to eat the rest of the week, and we went a couple weeks without that happening, which meant we ate a lot of takeout and other things, and the last two Sundays you have cooked again and it’s just really good, and I love coming home to have a Patricia cooked dinner that I can just warm up and share with you.
It’s so good.
Patricia: Thank you. Well, thank you for helping me chop on Sunday, because I am an elder, and my hair got stuck in my bra, and I went to toss my hair, and I tweaked my neck, so.
Nicole: That’s okay.
Patricia: I was not my best self.
Nicole: Thanks to the cool chopper we have, that means I don’t have to chop everything with a knife.
It’s the only way it happens.
Patricia: Well, that’s our show for today. We’d like to thank our awesome audio editor, Jen Zink. You can find her at loopdilou.com. We’ll leave a link to that in our show notes.
Nicole: You can also find the full show notes and transcript at eedapod.com. That’s E E D A P O D dot com. There you can also find a link to our Patreon, our bookshop link, and a link to the ongoing Enthusiastic Encouragement and Dubious Advice newsletter.
You can also find us on Instagram and Bluesky at eedapod and email us at eedapod@gmail.com.
Patricia: We are nothing if not consistent.
Nicole: We would also appreciate it so much if you would subscribe and rate us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts that allow ratings. It goes really far in helping other people find us, and we haven’t seen a new rating since March!
Patricia: Oh, poor unfortunate us.
Nicole: If you listen to this show and you love us, take a quick minute and leave a written rating. We love to see them. We are going to print them out and put them on our wall. And also, we will totally say your name on the show, unless you don’t want us to.
Patricia: I mean, you can also, in the rating, leave us a book recommendation.
Um, tell us your favorite way to eat potatoes. Like,
Nicole: yeah
Patricia: get exciting with it.
We would also appreciate anyone who can subscribe to us on Patreon. Support is going to help us keep this show going, especially without ads. You can find us at patreon.com/eedapod. In the meantime, we hope you find ways to be kind to yourself.
Drink some water and read a book. We’ll be talking to you soon.
Nicole: If your identity aligns with Gonzo, who’s my Muppet?
Patricia: Camilla? I mean, Camilla’s Gonzo’s significant other.
Nicole: I’m a chicken.