Scroll Less, Live More: Being Intentional with Tech Use

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Episode artwork for Enthusiastic Encouragement and Dubious Advice Podcast for the episode titled "Scroll Less, Live More: Being Intentional with Tech Use”

Show Notes

Patricia and Nicole discuss their ongoing efforts to reduce smartphone usage, sharing personal experiences, research findings, and practical tips for being more intentional with technology. They reflect on the challenges of breaking phone habits, the psychological effects of constant connectivity, and the importance of adding “friction” to limit mindless scrolling.

Mentioned on the show:

Find the full show notes and official transcript on our website: eedapod.com

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Sound editing by Jen Zink

Transcript

Music: [Intro Music] 

Patricia: Hey there, witty witches, welcome to Enthusiastic Encouragement and Dubious Advice, the podcast for folks who would rather curl into the fetal position than lean in. I’m your host, Patricia Elzie-Tuttle. 

Nicole: And I’m ready for my annual ration of candy corn, I’m Nicole Elzie-Tuttle. We’re recording the show on October 11th, 2025.

Patricia: Reminder that this podcast is independently run and we’re hoping to be supported by listeners. Downloading, sharing, and giving us reviews and ratings are free ways to show us support. 

Nicole: And if you have a few bucks to donate, our Patreon memberships start at $3 a month. Even if you don’t wanna engage with the content there it’s a great way to donate to the show. No pressure. But there are three tiers to choose from. 

Patricia: Also, any books we mention on this show are always in our Bookshop affiliate site. There is a link to our Bookshop affiliate site from our homepage, eedapod.com. And there’s also a link there to the merch shop that we finally opened. You can find a link to that shop on our webpage. eedapod.com. On the top, there’s a whole menu. 

Nicole: And if you listened to our last episode you know why we’re asking this, but we would still love for you to send us your self-help books that you love and or do not love. Send us an email, tell us what the book is and why you love or do not love it at eedapod at gmail dot com.

And lastly, it is vaccine season. Please, if you’re able to go get your flu vaccine and your COVID vaccine, they not only help protect you, but they help protect your friends and family and loved ones. And let’s just help keep everyone safe this fall. 

Patricia: Yeah. Yeah, we got ours. 

Nicole: Got ours. 

Patricia: Yeah. I just did muscle arms.

Nicole: Yeah. 

Patricia: What have we done recently? Aside from getting our vaccines… 

Nicole: We tried to go apple picking. 

Patricia: We tried to go apple picking with friends. You know, a friend found a place where on their website it said that they had apples. 

Nicole: Including some varieties that we’re very interested in. 

Patricia: Yes. Like, uh, Arkansas Black maybe.

Nicole: Yes. That was on the website. 

Patricia: Yeah. And we went and first of all it was like 85 degrees. Like it was so hot. 

Nicole: It is, it, Autumn is just kind of starting to creep in here. 

Patricia: Yeah. Well, October is historically the hottest month in the Bay Area. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Patricia: So it was like eighty something degrees. You’re in like a tank top, like in shorts, right? We’re, and we’re supposed to be apple picking and we go there and we’re, you know, walking around because it’s also like a huge vegetable garden. Like they had all kinds of things and I asked the guy we were talking to, like, we’re looking for apples. He said, no apples. 

Nicole: Womp womp. 

Patricia: Womp womp. 

Apparently some folks came in the previous weekend and picked all the apples even before they were ripe to be picked.

And you know, I think we’re so used to cherry picking where the orchards are very organized. They’ve done this for years and they really control and make sure people don’t pick things when they’re not ripe. Like they close off 

Nicole: yeah 

Patricia: that part of the orchard, it’s very well managed. 

Nicole: This place felt like it was more like volunteer run.

Patricia: Yeah, it was very vibes based and you know, I don’t blame people for not necessarily knowing that the apples weren’t ripe. 

Nicole: Yeah. If you’re not really. I guess in tune with how food grows. 

Patricia: Which most people aren’t. 

Nicole: Not anymore. And out here, like apples are ready all the time at the grocery store. 

Patricia: Yeah. Year round apples at the grocery store.

Nicole: So like, it’s not exactly their fault. They don’t know that the apples aren’t ready. 

Patricia: Yeah. So, you know, like you said, womp, womp. But then we still got to hang out with friends. We went to the farmer’s market, then we went and had tacos out on a patio. So… 

Nicole: ‘Cause it was warm out. 

Patricia: ‘Cause it was, ’cause like I said, it was like 85 degrees out.

Yeah, I think apple picking in the Bay Area. Like I said, October’s always the hottest month, so it’s always a hit and miss. 

Nicole: Yeah.

Music: [Transition Music] 

Patricia: So, I recently read a book titled How to Break Up With Your Phone by Catherine Price, and I feel like every few weeks I go through this cycle. I think, okay, this is it. I’m going to look at my phone less. And then I try some things and it works for about a week, and I feel really good that I am not on my phone, but then something happens or I have a hard day and I am back to mindlessly scrolling.

This is a recurring conversation with both friends and my therapist, and we definitely don’t have it all figured out. But I do want to talk today about things that have helped and a little bit about phone use. 

Nicole: Yeah, I, you know, I bet if you tracked my instances of scrolling, it would probably be an accurate indicator of how I’m feeling.

I feel like it’s a cycle, like a, a vicious cycle of the worse I feel, the more I scroll, and that makes me feel even worse. And it just like, ugh. 

Patricia: Yeah. 

Cell phones have been around long enough that we know that excessive cell phone use is not necessarily the best thing for us. 

Nicole: Yeah, yeah. There was a, an article out of 2017 from the APA where they did a survey and found that people who check their phones more often also tend to have higher levels of stress. I do wanna note that this is… 

Patricia: Yeah, we’re put, let’s put on our critical thinking hats. 

Nicole: Our science hat. 

Patricia: Our science hat? 

Nicole: Let me… Yeah! Let me put on my science hat. 

Patricia: Our science tiaras. 

Nicole: Oh yeah. 

Patricia: Guess we gotta go shopping for science tiaras.

Nicole: Ooh. Do I want one with a double helix? 

Patricia: Mm. 

Nicole: I don’t know. 

Patricia: Craft night. 

Nicole: Craft night. 

Anyways, I’ve got my science crown on. Just taking a survey and finding that people who use their phone more also have higher levels of stress does not automatically mean that using your phone more causes higher levels of stress.

It very well could be that people who are more stressed out tend to use their phone more. 

Patricia: Right. This is a correlation not necessarily a causation. 

Nicole: Yeah! This is what we call correlational data. These two things go together, but we don’t know if one causes the other or if there’s a third thing that is causing both of these to happen.

And I think that third thing also is contextual in this case. This information was published in February, 2017. There was a lot going on around then. That was the very beginning of the first Trump administration, and a lot of people were feeling a certain way. And maybe more of those people were more likely to respond to an APA survey as well.

Patricia: Mm-hmm. Yep. 

Nicole: Um, so we may also be dealing with a little bit of sample selection bias here. So there’s a lot of different things that can cause this, but there does seem to be a relationship between phone use and stress. 

Patricia: Yeah. 

There’s another arti-, and you know, we’ll, we’ll link that in the show notes. 

Nicole: Of course.

Patricia: I also found something else that will link in the show notes called The Mere Presence of a Smartphone Reduces Basal Attentional Performance. So the idea of a smartphone just being present 

Nicole: mm 

Patricia: right there next to you on your ta-, like on the desk, on the table if you’re at dinner. They hypothesize that there is a cognitive cost and lower attention overall. Right? 

So, basically putting it in easy terms. Well, I’ll use an example, actually. We were out to dinner with friends the other day and I asked you to put your phone away because everyone had arrived, we weren’t waiting for texts anymore. And so like I didn’t want any phones 

Nicole: yeah 

Patricia: on the table. I know that if there is a phone next to me, say while I’m in a Zoom meeting at work, I am constantly monitoring my phone that is right there.

You know, this is what I call anecdata, right? It’s an anecdote and it’s data that confirms this. But this study actually was like, yeah, what they looked into supports the idea that if there’s a phone present, then your attention and your cognitive function based on whatever else you’re trying to do is lowered.

Nicole: Yeah. You are constantly dedicating even a small amount of your attention to the device. 

Patricia: To the device. 

Nicole: Regardless of whether you’re actively using it. 

Patricia: Yep. 

Nicole: You are attending to it in some way. 

Patricia: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Nicole: Which is fascinating. 

Patricia: Yeah. 

Nicole: The previous Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy, in, gosh, when was this, 2024? Wrote an op-ed in the New York Times calling for a warning label on social media platforms stating that social media is associated with significant mental health harms for adolescents.

And this is also in line, or coming on the heels of, a growing body of evidence that shows that social media use in children and adolescents leads to negative mental health outcomes. And you know, this is why some countries are starting to ban the use of social media for children. 

Patricia: You know, I think about that and I know like the group being studied is adolescents and I’m really having a hard time trying to square that like it’s bad for adolescents, but it’s okay for adults. Like… 

Nicole: I think the idea behind it is more that like as an adult, you can be more informed and make a more informed choice. 

Patricia: And, and that’s what I’m having a hard time to square. Because that is actually not the way a lot of adults function. 

Nicole: No, it’s not.

It’s the same reasoning behind like slapping a warning label on cigarettes. 

Patricia: Yeah. 

Nicole: Like, oh, you’re of a certain age. We really can’t control what you do anymore. 

Patricia: Yeah. 

Nicole: So we’re just gonna give you some information about it and hope for the best. 

Patricia: Vaya con dios. 

Like, uh, you know, honestly, the most condemning evidence, like in, in my opinion, is that there are so many interviews with C-suite tech executives and social media executives. And they’re always like, I don’t let my children have cell phones. Or the house rule is no cell phones in the bedroom, or cell phones are always off if they are at home. Like that, you know, I think about how sketchy it would be if I went to go get a tattoo and the tattoo artist had no tattoos. And they were like, oh no, I don’t get tattoos. Like, no, but, right? Like that would be a major red flag. 

Nicole: Yeah. Another similar one would be like going to a bartender that doesn’t drink. 

Patricia: Yeah. 

Nicole: And asking them to make you something.

Patricia: Yeah. Like, mm. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know. Yeah. What did I say earlier? A dentist who doesn’t floss. 

Nicole: Oh, no. 

Patricia: A dentist, a dentist is like you, you need to floss. You need to… Do you floss? Oh, no. Not for me. Thanks. 

Nicole: And yeah, like we’re saying all this in the context that this is a podcast that is probably coming to you through your smartphone. As are like all the audio books that I listen to.

Patricia: Absolutely. There’s no doubt that there are great things about having a tiny computer in your pocket and a tiny camera in your pocket. And we are by no means advocating for being completely smartphone free. I just want to be on my phone less and specifically like certain apps less. And the time that I am on my phone, I want to be more deliberate about it.

Nicole: Yeah. 

I think what we’re saying here is like, it’s important to differentiate how you are using your smartphone. And I think this was a big part of, you know, Dr. Murthy’s op-ed. All the hours I spend listening to audio books are not the same as doom scrolling on news updates or getting lost in Instagram or TikTok or, you know, answering work emails after hours. 

Patricia: Yeah, not, not all things are created equal or not all the things drain you. I am not going to share like absolutely every tip and trick I’ve ever learned about staying off my phone. But let’s talk about some of them. And of course I’d recommend by starting turning off notifications, especially for the apps that are the ones you most want to avoid falling into.

Like, of course I get notifications for text messages, but I don’t for TikTok. 

Nicole: Right. And this is the one that’s definitely helped me stay off of my personal vice app of Instagram a lot more. It is one less temptation to pick up the phone and open it just to see like what you’ve sent me or like texted me. And then while I’m there I could watch a couple of reels, you know, as a treat. 

Patricia: Look through some of these stories 

Nicole: yeah 

Patricia: as a treat. 

Nicole: See what’s going on in my friend’s lives. 

And if that sounds, you know, too much cold turkey for you, most phones do have settings to restrict notifications from certain apps at certain times of day. 

So I also utilize this where I have my phone set up like between 5:00 PM and like 8:00 AM I do not get alerts for my work email. Like my phone doesn’t make a noise, 

Patricia: yeah 

Nicole: it doesn’t light up. 

Patricia: Yeah. 

Nicole: The alerts don’t alert for me. 

Patricia: Yeah, that’s excellent. But speaking of cold turkey, you know. One of the things that I’ve heard recommended and, and I know has worked for you is removing the, uh, the apps you wanna avoid, removing them entirely from your phone.

Nicole: Yeah. I did this for a while with Instagram and it was great. I still had it on my iPad. It just meant that I had to be a lot more deliberate when and where I could even access the app, since I don’t take my iPad with me everywhere. I also have done this with Facebook, which I’m not a big fan of Facebook anymore, but that’s where some of my people are, and some little life updates, so I check on it occasionally, but I don’t even have that on my iPad. The only way I can access that is on my laptop by logging in in the web browser. And I deliberately keep it where I’m logged out every time. So anytime I want to try to access it, I have to go through a CAPTCHA, I have to do two factor authentication, which means getting a text message to my phone with a code that I have to enter, and that takes a couple minutes sometimes to even come through, and it’s a whole thing. 

Patricia: Yeah, what you’re talking about is friction, 

Nicole: yes 

Patricia: which we’ll get to in a little bit. 

Nicole: We will definitely get to it.

Patricia: I think most smartphones also have some local options. I know that for my Android, I can set a timer for the amount of time per day I want to spend on specific apps. 

Nicole: I checked in on this. There is options for this on iPhone as well. 

Patricia: There are also apps to help, like tons, if you, if you web search for like focus apps, there are just so many.

So you know, we’re not gonna go over all kinds here. You really need to find what works for you because some absolutely have like a nuclear option and some are a bit more gentle. I have experience with the Forest app, which I used for a long time and that was actually very helpful when I used it.

Screen Zen is another that one of my mentees actually gave me a personal recommendation for, and it adds friction, uh, from what I understand. You know, friction is things that make you kind of pause. 

Nicole: Mm-hmm. 

Patricia: Uh, and or make things harder to access to make you stop and think about why you’re using these things.

You know, Screen Zen I think maybe allows for a popup and it also makes a delay between like when you tap the icon of Instagram or whatever and when it actually opens. So you kind of have 30 seconds to think about it. 

Nicole: Forest on the other hand, kind of locked you out of your phone for periods of time, right? Because you would grow a little tree. And if you opened it, your tree wouldn’t grow? 

Patricia: Yeah. If you, it wouldn’t actually lock things out. You would just kind of disallow apps to look at while your tree was growing and it was more of a, if you opened those apps, it would kill your tree. So that was more of like a psychological, like it wouldn’t physically keep you out of the apps.

Nicole: Yeah. 

Patricia: It would play on your kind of desire to not kill this little thing. Uh, it was a Tamagotchi kind of. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Patricia: It was Tamagotchi psychology. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Speaking of friction, another thing you can do is just hide the app on your phone. There’s a way to just like delete the app icon without 

Patricia: without deleting the app.

Nicole: Yes. And so it doesn’t show up on like your main pages if you have the little like social media grouping or whatever. Instead you have to scroll to the like app library or use the search function to find it. And this again is just like adding another step, forcing you to be more deliberate about your choice in it.

Patricia: One, I learned from the book I read, uh, How to Break up With Your Phone, is turning your phone to grayscale. And by that I mean like removing all color from your phone. 

Nicole: This is totally an option in cell phones I didn’t know existed. When you put this in our script here, it was the first time I’d even like heard of it or considered it, but it makes so much sense. ‘Cause it’s removing the bright and shiny colors and the things that kind of feed into the, like psychology of the smartphone use. 

Patricia: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Nicole: It’s, it’s a fascinating concept. 

Patricia: One of the things, because of course this is something I’ve been working on forever that my old therapist had me do that I still try to do, is to actually, if I’m on my phone, to say I am choosing to scroll Bluesky right now. I am choosing to read through my inbox right now. Or I am choosing to watch TikTok right now. 

It is surprisingly useful because the moment I say it out loud or in my head to myself, I recoil and I’m like, ew, why am I choosing to do this? And it’s kind of about being deliberate. Like it’s not that you’re helpless and this, this phone is sucking you in and it’s the phone’s fault.

Like you have the power to stop and allowing yourself that agency of like, I’m choosing to do this. 

Nicole: Yeah. We were looking, some of the apps you mentioned earlier, I think like Screen Zen may also offer you kind of an ability to prompt yourself with a question. 

Patricia: Mm mm-hmm. 

Nicole: Before opening the app so you can set it up to do things like this, like type in I am choosing to 

Patricia: Right 

Nicole: whatever. To kind of force this. 

Patricia: Or have a popup question that is like, why are you opening this app right now? Like, what is your goal in opening this app right now? 

Nicole: Right. And I think that’s kind of taking this a step further and just like you were saying, just verbalizing, I am choosing to do this.

Patricia: Mm-hmm. 

Nicole: You can also ask yourself, why are you doing this? And I think this is something, you know, it takes a little introspection, but like, why are you choosing to do this? Are you bored? Are you trying to avoid something? Are you seeking information? Which is something I do a lot of times, like, oh, I have a question.

Patricia: Absolutely. 

Nicole: I wanna know about this plant I’m looking at right now or something. 

Patricia: Last night, uh, who is Cerberus’ father? 

Nicole: Oh my gosh, yes. Fun pillow talk at the Elzie-Tuttle household. 

But like are you seeking dopamine? Are you trying to, to find some of that? 

Patricia: Yeah. That last one, the dopamine. It brings me back around to what we’ve talked about in the past about filling your cup.

And really advise making yourself a list of other ways to get dopamine that aren’t scrolling in social media can be helpful because then you don’t have to think of it in the moment. I think this is really what we should do in our planner so that we always, we always know where that is too. 

Nicole: Yeah, and these can be simple things like, you know, dance, have a little dance break.

But go take a walk or have a snack or do some crafting. Maybe make some music. I don’t know. I don’t think you’d like it if I tried to make some music. 

Patricia: No, we tried that once. It did not go well. 

Nicole: Yeah, I, I couldn’t hold a tune on my kazoo. 

Patricia: Yeah, I know. 

Nicole: Go read a book! If it’s your thing, go hug your person.

Build some Lego. That’s a good one. We need to get a Lego bucket out or something. 

Patricia: Yeah. 

Nicole: Sing a song. Do some exercise. Play a game that doesn’t involve your phone. Oh, we ought to talk about this at some point, ’cause we’re just getting into this. Little kind of solo solitaire games. That can also be two players.

Patricia: Yeah, like one or two person games. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Patricia: There’s actually some great options out there. 

Nicole: We’re gonna have to talk about them in the future. 

Listen to a favorite album. If you have some other hobby, go play with that. Or if you’re like me, I will just get up and go look at my plants. Like I’ll, I’ll really examine them.

Patricia: Plant tour. 

Nicole: Yeah. Kind of check ’em out, see how they’re doing. Helps me understand where they’re at in their day. 

Patricia: You know, nostalgia can be really powerful for wellbeing. And I’m not saying, you know, go watch an episode of Jem and the Holograms, although that would absolutely cure me of whatever ails me.

But listening to a song or album that you used to like, like 20 years ago or when you were in high school or whatever. Like that can also be like, oh yeah, this, this album, this song. I used to listen to it nonstop and that could be really good. Your mileage may vary with that one, Nicole’s looking at me. 

And another thing I actually have done is I’ve made myself a dopamine playlist. Like here’s a playlist of all the songs that get me going that like never fail to bring me joy or make me smile. I also have a whole playlist of songs I like to sing. 

Nicole: Those are fun when you get into those. 

Relatedly though, make a list of things you’d just rather be doing instead, like writing or cleaning, or you know, sending some snail mail. Sometimes we get sucked into our phones because we don’t know what to do. So we just, that’s like the easiest thing. It’s usually right on hand. You can just sit down and do that. 

Patricia: Yeah, I definitely turn to my phone in times of overwhelm and anxiety, however, looking at my phone never actually makes me less overwhelmed or anxious, like that’s the wild thing. 

Nicole: Yeah, same. It just like, ugh. 

Patricia: Yeah. It’s like, I feel bad. How about I try feeling worse. 

Nicole: And sometimes it’s not even that, like the thing doesn’t necessarily give me anxiety, like scrolling around may not give me more anxiety, but I just lose a couple hours and then I come out of it and I’m still feeling anxious.

It’s just now I’ve also lost a couple hours. 

Patricia: Yeah. For me, we were talking before the show. For me, like looking at my phone physically makes me feel bad. Like my neck hurts, my arm hurts. I start to get like nauseous, motion sickness from flipping through videos. And I feel like physically not good too. 

Nicole: Yeah. That’s… 

Patricia: Like regardless of what I’m looking at. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Patricia: The thing that has worked best for me so far, like the best thing. 

Nicole: Mm-hmm. 

Patricia: In not looking at my phone every three seconds. Is that making sure my phone is out of sight. Out of sight, out of reach. Sometimes it even means if I’m in a Zoom meeting at work, having my phone behind me somewhere. Where again, going back to that one study we mentioned, it’s not in front of me. Having it in the other room, that has been incredibly helpful. 

Nicole: Yeah, I notice you do this a lot at home, especially in the evenings when I’m here, you’ll be like, oh, I didn’t get any alerts. Phone’s in the bedroom. 

Patricia: Yeah. And I do, and we’ll talk about this in a second, I do leave my watch on in case a family member does text or call.

Nicole: Yeah. 

Patricia: But I don’t get, like, I don’t get other alerts on my watch, so. 

Nicole: Yeah. And so this kind of leads to this. Depending on how your kind of ecosystem is set up, if you’re trying to like leave your phone in another place, so it’s just not easy to pick up. This may also mean like needing to change the alerts you get, or just take off your smartwatch or also set your tablet somewhere.

If you can also access your phone through your laptop, you may need to turn that feature off so that you don’t kind of virtually pick up your phone and start scrolling it instead of whatever work you’re trying to do on your laptop or whatever. 

Patricia: Yeah. I think it really depends on what is it you’re trying to do less of 

Nicole: and how, how your system is set up.

Patricia: Yeah. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

The other thing I do wanna note on here. And this is especially relevant to social media apps, is that these apps are designed to keep you engaging with them and scrolling. And the reason for this is because you and your data are the actual product they are selling. This is why these apps are free.

Everything you do on them and often everything you do on your phone that has these apps on them is tracked through these apps and then they sell that data. The more they can keep you engaging with your phone and in particular these apps, the more data they have on you that they can then sell. 

Patricia: Think of it like this social media algorithms are slot machine algorithms. Like your phone’s, a little slot machine. Bright colors, fun sounds, gives you strategic wins. Slot machines take your money. Social media takes your data and attention, which honestly I think can be more precious in a lot of ways. 

Nicole: Yeah, and what we’re, we’re not saying is to don’t use them at all. Instead, maybe be more conscientious about when and how you use them. They can be fun, but they can also take a lot from you, just like slot machines.

Music: [Transition Music] 

Nicole: Oh, okay. Patricia, what do you want people to take away? Because that was a lot. 

Patricia: Yeah, it was a lot. I think this is really about doing less of what we don’t wanna do and doing more of what we do wanna do. And sometimes I do wanna look at TikTok. Sometimes I’m, you know, I’m posting videos to TikTok.

Sometimes I’m posting things to Instagram that I wanna post, and those are things I want to do, but I think, yeah, just being more deliberate. 

Nicole, what’s your takeaway? 

Nicole: Our phones can do amazing things and often improve our lives. But that doesn’t mean you have to live your whole life through your phone.

Patricia: I mean, we met on a dating app. 

Nicole: We did! 

Patricia: Right. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Patricia: So… 

Nicole: Yeah, you can, you can still do a lot of things and have a lot of fun, but be more deliberate and maybe live your life a little outside of your phone. 

Okay, what’s been filling your cup lately? 

Patricia: Honestly, friend time. Friend time, both friend time we’ve already had, which was apple picking, and we went to dinner with friends the other night and we got a little back scenes tour of the uh, video game museum.

Nicole: Oh yeah, that was really cool. 

Patricia: Yeah, we had ice cream. And we also have friends to look forward to, like gonna get to see one of my friends that we haven’t seen since before the pandemic. ’cause she lives outside of the country. Uh, so she’s coming to town soon. We have another friend that we’re gonna see and like the social time, even though I drag my feet and I’m like, oh, that’s like, I don’t wanna go out.

I don’t wanna la la la. Like. I’m always very excited afterward. 

How about you? What’s filling your cup? 

Nicole: Yeah, I’m, I’m really fealing the friends also right now. Things feel really stressful. Both like personally-locally, but also just big picture and, you know, our friends are our community and having that time and being with them and being with our community really offers a chance to be present and feel less isolated.

Patricia: Yeah. 

Well, that’s our show for today. We’d like to thank our awesome audio editor, Jen Zink. You can find her at loopdilou.com. We’ll leave a link to that in our show notes. 

Nicole: You can find the full show notes and transcript at eedapod.com. That’s E-E-D-A-P-O-D dot com. There you can also find a link to our Patreon, our bookshop link, and a link to the ongoing Enthusiastic Encouragement and Dubious Advice newsletter.

You can also find us on Instagram and Bluesky at eedapod and email us at eedapod at gmail dot com. 

Patricia: We are nothing if not consistent! 

Nicole: We would also appreciate it so much if you would subscribe and rate us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts that allow for ratings. It really goes far in helping other people find us.

And if you would like to leave us a comment, you can do so at any of the places I just named, or email us, including email us your self-help books you love or love to hate. 

Patricia: We would also appreciate anyone who can subscribe to us on Patreon. Support there is going to help us keep the show going, especially without ads. You can find us at patreon.com/eedapod. 

In the meantime, we hope you find ways to be kind to yourself. Drink some water and read a book. We’ll be talking to you soon.

Nicole: Maybe we’ll go, uh, candy, corn picking later. 

Patricia: Mm pass. Baby, I don’t like eating plastic.

Nicole: This is an annual argument in our home.